By: posthumous [2006-10-26]

8 Steps In A Dream

more rambling on this subject

In this thread here, I wrote about the 8 steps you can take with your eyes closed while your mind pretends it can still see. I think this is similar to a dream state, because the mind is creating the vision for you.

And that's what I want to talk about, as in... holy shit. The mind is not merely interpreting our senses. The mind can provide those senses... as we see in vivid dreams. The mind is essentially talking to itself, seeing the world and being the world at the same time. This goes well beyond memory, which is simply a matter of recording sensations and then playing them back. And even memory changes things.

Surely dreams and memories show us that the mind has a facility for creating reality, a reality factory. Whenever I hear about artificial intelligence, the attempt to mimic the human mind, this never comes up. Instead, they only talk about interpreting reality. Maybe the only way to interpret reality is to create it.

My theory is that the reason dreams and memories come so readily to us is because the mind is damn near close to creating reality even when it's supposedly just interpreting it. Seeing something new, like the ocean for the first time, can be overwhelming because the mind has no reality to impose on it. Those are the only moments when we are truly seeing, truly sensing the world in a passive way, yet they are considered epiphanies, holy visions.

Art tries to do that, I think: wake us from our dream. But the dream is necessary for life. The more things covered by the dream-blanket the more we can focus on whatever truly needs our attention. Dream-blanket? Stay with me here. Look at something. Look at your computer. Now close your eyes, and you can still see it. Your mind is now creating it. Open your eyes again and try to see both computers at once, the one that you're seeing and the one that you're creating.

I think this is why they can make a machine who can beat Kasparov at chess, but not a machine that can make breakfast. Interacting with the world is an incredibly complex endeavor, requiring layers of ideas and stored knowledge acting and interacting simultaneously. The mind controls as much of it as possible. That's why when you open the utensil drawer and there are no forks left, you stare blankly for a few moments. You have to readjust your created world to momentarily match the real one.

And that's why we have dreams. Not for any holy or psychological reason, but simply because we have a reality factory in our heads that doesn't need us to be aware or even conscious to keep chugging along, pumping out worlds. What's of use to psychologists is to see what realities are chosen, how they are warped, and how they are interpreted by the waking mind.

yeah that's right, all posthumous, all the time... [2006-10-26 18:38:53] posthumous
I just had to make the comments stop!

wait... but now.. more comments.... AGG!!
Island [2006-10-26 19:04:48] König Prüße, GfbAEV
In Huxley's book, "Island," they practiced reality control, sort of like what you talk about. I have just discovered the shakumachi flute!
~souls in borrowed flesh~ [2006-10-27 04:50:56] perfktMperfktshn
..sounds like a soup de jour..............i was just lookin at dream symbols the other day...dreams can tell of cumming events...no lie ..i had this dream that my niece ran up the stairs to tell me that her mom (my sister) was life flighted to the hospital for an overdose on her medication....so i told her about it..about 3 days later the same niece really came running up the stairs to tell me that my son was life flighted ..i have a few other dreams that foretold an event butt never one that specific...i try to tell myself to dream the winning lottery numbers butt noooooooo...i also have those dreams that im sittin on a toilet peeing and peeing and peeing sum more...then i wake up in the nick of time to run to the toilet...

heres a sight for the mind... http://tinyurl.com/y5nq72 ...i did the free trance thing...i didnt think i could be hypnotized butt when i did it i got scared when i couldnt open my eyes..onaccounta i thought there was gonna be sum kinda subliminal crap in it ....i couldve sworn i heard voices sayin "make as many stupid comments on thingsihate as possible..the more stupider the more betterer" (the voice had very bad grammar)..butt nah i dont think there was really a subliminal message in it ...
Lucky Mojo Dream Book! [2006-10-27 10:49:44] König Prüße, GfbAEV
You need a Lucky Mojo Dream Book!
http://www.luckymojo.com/luckyw.html
Interesting [2006-10-27 11:02:45] Wyatt
We do something on the boat we call SIM/STIM - when we have the control deck module stored in a warewhouese, and we hook it up to a bunch of computers and drill the crew. Aside from the lack of motion (which a sub doesn't really have anyway when it's at depth) the crew cannot tell the difference between an exercise and a real shooting scenario. In many ways, the computer is actively creating the reality that the crew experiences, albeit based on some controlling algorithms and data sets that were initially set up by human operators. It's a far stretch from there to a dreaming machine, but we're getting there - just look at the MMRPGs. At some point, we will elicit a variable response from the machine that the designer didn't intend. Will that then be the outward manifestation of a machine dream?

(You know, when you produce stuff like this it almost makes me stop and think that there must be something worthwhile in Zirealism.)
(Almost.)
The Boat!?!? [2006-10-27 12:27:56] König Prüße, GfbAEV
You're on a boat? Anyway, I sort of know what you're talking about; I had a CMAP book a lifetime ago. I dunno if they even still use that. But it was a Control Data system for Computer Multiple Aim Point for the Triden II D-5. I was at one of the Naval Weapons Stations in a shed, and they had a little tube The Bus with a half-dozen grapefruit-sized bangers, I wonder if all the little atoms are dreaming of becoming unglued in a millisecond of white light/white heat? The Sunday Phunnies, there's always more there than meets the eye. Like the one about the French Cave drawings. I liked The Far Side, and a lot of Zirealism is farther. I am become death!
http://www.frif.com/cat97/f-j/iamdeath.html
I am become death [2006-10-27 18:02:15] posthumous
would be a great salutation for letters, if people send letter any more. oh wait, I think the salutation is at the beginning. what do you call that thing at the end?

I am become death,

Posthumous O'Toole
Transcend Your Guna!!! [2006-10-27 19:06:20] König Prüße, GfbAEV
I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds. You are only an instrument. Therefore kill those who are already slain by Me. Do not fear. I place the seed in the womb of nature. The three Gunas, Saattva of happiness, Raajas to action, Taamas to ignorance, bind the soul to the body determining how they live, worship, even what food they like. To love me is to transcend your Guna.
--Inna Bhagavad-Gita, honey!
~butthole~ [2006-10-27 19:59:39] perfktMperfktshn
..i think the thing at the end is called a butthole or i guess it depends on what ur looking at..the thing at the end of a letter is called a closing and in closing i bid u adieu.
hebetudinously urs,
the village idiot
~yeah~ [2006-10-27 20:37:36] perfktMperfktshn
...i kill u two times!
Love me two times, girl [2006-10-28 01:33:54] König Prüße, GfbAEV
Love me two times, girl
One for tomorrow
One just for today
Love me two times
Im goin away
~jim?~ [2006-10-28 03:15:31] perfktMperfktshn
is that u jim? i thought u already went away !
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